Interview of Gregory Bovino
"We were on the march for total victory" - Bovino takes on the cartels, antifa, and Washington bureaucrats : the story of an unprecedented operation.
He is no bureaucrat. He has never claimed to be one. Gregory Bovino spent thirty years with the U.S. Border Patrol before being thrust into the heart of the most ambitious immigration policy in recent U.S. history. Bovino oversaw some of the most high-profile domestic operations of the Trump era: Los Angeles, Chicago, Charlotte, New Orleans. A graduate of the National War College, a theorist as much as a man of the field, he is one of those rare figures capable of simultaneously thinking through tactics and strategy on a national scale. Voxeuropa sat down with him for a candid interview about what America has just gone through and what Europe should take away from it.
1. How does a field agent become, within months, the most visible and controversial public face of U.S. immigration policy?
Inaugural strategic concepts, or those long forgotten, put into action on a national or international stage invariably grab attention. Normally, agency leadership takes the roll of spokesperson for the operations, leaving field leadership to do its thing operationally. Occasionally, as documented numerous times in history, unique circumstances compel an operational leader to assume leadership for the operational and strategic (public facing) elements of an operation. Look at Rommel in Germany, J. Edgar Hoover of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Patton in the United States, or even Lawrence of Arabia in the United Kingdom; each offering single source subject matter expertise, coupled with a unique set of circumstances, that upended the traditional public facing hierarchy. They were perhaps the only ones who could, and should, be the public face of their respective situations. Through necessity and personal expertise, they captured public imagination while conducting effective STRATEGIC LEVEL operations. They understood the strategy behind the whole situation, whereas others in government/politics did not, or refused to do so. Expertise in strategy, coupled with on the ground leadership, especially in chaotic, public facing events, is the rarest of elements. Hence, it’s rare to see this phenomenon take shape before you eyes.
Now let us look at Operation at Large throughout the United States. Within Customs and Border Protection/Department of Homeland Security (CBP/DHS), leadership with requisite subject matter expertise to carry out a large scale, extremely public facing operation at the magnitude necessary for success did not exist, except in one Border Patrol Sector. The El Centro Border Patrol Sector, which I had led for 5 years, was already adept at interior enforcement. I myself had conducted the nation’s first true interior enforcement operation in decades on July 29, 2010 via Operation Don’t Let Em Ride, in Las Vegas, Nevada. After that, I spent two years honing interior operations as Chief Patrol Agent of the New Orleans Sector. Hitting illegal aliens and smuggling networks throughout Louisiana, Alabama, East Texas, Mississippi and Arkansas, the subject matter expertise was undeniably present in El Centro Sector.
Additionally, I spent five years working with the unparalleled El Centro Sector staff to develop an interior enforcement strategy capable of deporting tens of millions of illegal aliens from the nation’s interior. In El Centro, we took care of our part of the border during COVID, and because ours was the only border sector under true operational control for both COVID and the disastrous Biden open-border years, it allowed us to craft to perfection a long term, sustainable interior enforcement strategy. As interior enforcement operations began in earnest in Bakersfield, California, in January of 2025 (under the Biden regime) CBP and DHS leadership were woefully unprepared for interior enforcement and wanted no part of it. As we hit Los Angeles a few months later, the two career immigration professionals, CBP Commissioner Rodney Scott and Border Czar Tom Homan not only had zero experience in total spectrum immigration enforcement but were unwilling to talk for the agency during operations. Their reticence set into motion the occasional, unique set of circumstances detailed above. I did not apply or try to be the public face of the operation, however there can be only one public face for this type of operation; the responsibility fell to me.
Although I was a field leader, the US Border Patrol builds strategists within its command that can be pressed into higher service at a moment’s notice. Fortunately, the US Border Patrol, with urging from now retired Chief Patrol Agent Paul Beeson and now retired Associate Chief Steven Pastor, sent me to the world’s preeminent strategy school, the National War College in 2008 to learn, and most importantly, implement strategy formulation into Border Patrol operations. Being thrust into a national level, one-of-a-kind operation was par for the course as I had trained for the occasion for years. Also, you must remember, the US Border Patrol is already involved in cutting edge operations with the potential at any moment to be thrust into the national limelight, so Operation at Large was not all that different from what I had already done for 30 years. It was different for the Rodney Scotts (high school education) and Tom Homans who were status quo bureaucrats, but not to experienced Border Patrol leadership like Chief Mike Banks, Chief Jason Owens or myself.
2. Which operation best represents your approach?
Operation Catahoula Crunch (CC). This operation lasted from late November through early January 2025-26. This operation was slick and effective with only one incident of violence for the entire period. CC incorporated 250 Border Patrol Agents and ICE special operations agents to completely shut down illegal immigration activities throughout the New Orleans area. Entire communities of illegal aliens either self-deported or relocated to other states. Border Patrol Agents worked alongside state, local and federal agencies to both lower crime and stop illegal immigration in New Orleans. Border Patrol Agents rode together with local police departments to wield the ultimate in enforcement. No illegal alien was safe, and radical anarchist groups dared not tread in Louisiana. The support extended from President Trump to Governor Landry to Secretary Noem to Border Patrol on the ground. With the ability to conduct immigration enforcement largely unimpeded on a large scale, the results were instantaneous. Catahoula Crunch was inconvenient for the US news media which is why you never hear of its success. This was what we sought to accomplish in all states, and the contrast with violent, Democrat run states such as Minnesota, Illinois, or California was dramatic. Again, no reporting on the success of Catahoula Crunch because it was so very successful. One would have thought the status quo crowd of Scott and Homan would’ve loved Catahoula Crunch, however they remained listless and staunchly silent.
Note: There is a distinction between ICE and Border Patrol. ICE are the plain clothes “detectives” who conduct long-term or targeted operations against a variety of bad actors. Border Patrol, by contrast, is the UNIFORMED immigration enforcement branch. Border Patrol has the training, expertise, equipment and most importantly, the mindset to conduct total spectrum immigration enforcement. Often referred to as the “Marine Corps of Federal Law Enforcement”, the US Border Patrol is able to operate anywhere in the United States or related territories and accomplish all immigration enforcement duties, simultaneously (roving patrol, special operations, targeting, intelligence, traffic checkpoints, foot patrols, area patrols, etc). Border Patrol structure is engineered towards enforcement and patrol and remains the only organization capable of planning and executing these types of operations. The Newark, New Jersey fiasco of last night is an example of what happens when you send untrained detectives into a situation best handled by uniformed specialists!!!!
3. What changes operationally when you move from a cooperative state like Louisiana to a hostile one like Chicago or Minneapolis?
This is not to say that operations in sanctuary cities and states were occluded or halted. They weren’t. Operations took on a different flavor. In Los Angeles and Chicago, Border Patrol quashed large scale violence within the first hours or days of operations. In Los Angeles, the Paramount Riot started within an hour of Border Patrol arriving on scene. After that riot, no organized large-scale opposition took place against federal officers or facilities until the surrender in Minnesota. Same for Illinois. Once Border Patrol took over in Illinois for ICE, organized opposition ground to a standstill. There were indeed individual instances of violence, but large organized groups of anarchists marching on federal buildings or courts, for instance, were absent. The ability to degrade, dissuade, and deter large scale violence is a hallmark of Border Patrol total spectrum immigration enforcement. It is part of our expeditionary focus and has been for 102 years. When James Meredith entered Mississippi State University in 1962, for example, it was Border Patrol who was tapped to assist US Marshalls during an extremely violent event. Same for any of the cities now — Border Patrol has operated in non-permissive environments every minute of its existence.
Status quo leaders like Scott and Homan never could understand this concept and consequently made fatal decisions in Minnesota that led to poor outcomes. Had Border Patrol been in charge from the outset in Minnesota, no organized opposition would have been present and perhaps loss of life could have been prevented as it undoubtedly was in Bakersfield, Los Angeles, Sacramento, Riverside, Chicago, Charlotte, New Orleans and related districts. For our friends in Europe, Minnesota was the least violent of cities (other than New Orleans). Operation Metro Surge quite simply had no Border Patrol leadership or presence when it counted — at the beginning of the operation. Why keep your pro squad out of the crucial game? Madness or incompetence, or both?
4. How do antifascist groups contribute to turning ICE operations into confrontational flashpoints?
There are no anti-fascist groups. I call them pro-fascist groups as they have far more in common with fascism than the organizations they purport to protest. Pro-fascist groups are well funded and attempt to organize to stop, delay or obstruct law enforcement officers. Doing so puts all at risk. During one episode in Minnesota, I remember one anarchist who rammed law enforcement vehicles and then fled straight to a school zone to inflict maximum “effect” on the situation. Within minutes, that school zone was filled with dozens of rioters and anarchists’ intent on assaulting officers while attempting to take on the victim role in front of cameras. This tactic was developed by similar pro fascists groups in the Vietnam War and we witnessed it used during recent interior operations. Although their tactics did not stop operations, their collusion with pro fascist media was apparently effective in alarming weak-kneed bureaucrats within DHS as well as the typical cast of politicians more afraid of polling than the damage done by tens of millions of illegal aliens.
5. At CPAC, you said you wanted to deport one hundred million people. Pew Research puts the figure at fourteen million. What does your number represent?
I estimate 100 million illegal aliens in the United States right now. The Pew Research number has stayed the same since the 1970s and is by all intents, meaningless and grounded in political correctness and poor research (they rely on census surveys). When I joined Border Patrol in 1996, the estimate was 12 to 15 million. 30 years ago, illegal aliens were not present in large swaths of the United States. Concentrated mainly in California, Oregon, Washington and perhaps Arizona, illegal aliens were rarely seen in most of the other US States. Around 2000, I began noticing illegal aliens in the Southeastern United States. Yet the estimate still centered around 12 to 15 million. After 2000, the floodgates opened and the number of illegal aliens increased exponentially. Entire villages in Mexico were emptied of males between the ages of 18 and 45. Once those millions entered, family members began arriving to join them by the many more millions. I saw it happening for 30 years on the border and noticed it in EVERY interior locale I visited. Yet the PEW number remained consistent.
I began looking at numbers in earnest in 2008 when I authored a research paper entitled “Illegal Aliens and Destruction of Natural Resources”; a paper dedicated to shedding light on destruction of our nation’s treasured natural resources by a large influx of illegal aliens. For illegal aliens to have a devastating effect on natural resources, nationwide, I knew the number of illegal aliens had to be huge. Many times that of a PEW “research” report. I looked particularly at Bear Starnes’ research which said, in approximately 2006, the number of illegal aliens stood above 20 million. I thought that number low, however it was the first research of its kind by an organization devoid of political interest that genuinely sought the number of illegal aliens living in the United States. Bear Starnes was a banking institution intent on gaining the “edge” on other financial institutions by predicting the effect of illegal aliens on a host of fiduciary issues (construction, remittances, etc). With fiduciary interests in mind, not political pandering, I felt this to be a landmark study.
With the 20 million+ number in 2006, I watched an unending stream of illegal aliens flow across that border and NO interior enforcement of consequence to produce meaningful deportations. From 2006 until 2026, our borders were speed bumps. Aliens and smugglers knew if one made it across the border, then they were virtually free from consequence. In those 20 years, especially under Biden, millions made it into the interior.
During operations in Los Angeles, Chicago and Charlotte, the 100 million number came into focus. One facet we looked at was commuting times to work. To ensure commuting times are “good”, 15 to 20 percent of commuters must be removed from the commute. In Charlotte, there are approximately 153k commuters each day. Once we began Operation Charlotte’s Web, commuting times weren’t in the “good” category, they were in the “superlative” category. Estimates that 30+ percent of commuters were no longer commuting. That means 30+ percent were more than likely illegal aliens. That’s approximately ¼ of the commuters in Charlotte. That, yep, you guessed it, coincides nicely with the 100 million number (out of 420 million people in the United States, I say 100 million are illegal aliens). Same with children not attending school in Charlotte. 30+ percent of students were absent from class. These were of course illegal alien children or children of illegal aliens. That too coincides with ¼ of the population. Understanding what middle America looks like in terms of illegal aliens, coupled with firsthand knowledge of the border, all juxtaposed against my own and current research, leads me to understand that 100 million illegal aliens live in the United States. This includes visa overstays and all types of illegal aliens. Remember, the United States was the world’s illegal alien dumping ground for 4 years under puppet Biden.
6. You have criticized Tom Homan and Markwayne Mullin for prioritizing “the worst of the worst” over mass deportation. Has the Trump administration abandoned its core campaign promise?
I have not criticized Homan or Mullin. I simply told the truth and care about America, and if they or others believe it as criticism, then perhaps they need to look at their stance and not mine. Worst of the worst (also known as targeting) is all Homan, Scott and now Mullin know. I can’t blame them directly for failing to garner the knowledge, skills, and abilities to one, understand the problem, and two, to solve it. If there was criticism, it would be directed towards them using a TACTIC known as “worst of the worst” and wielding it as some sort of overarching STRATEGY capable of affecting national interests. Worst of the worst is a mere one tactic in total spectrum immigration enforcement. Tactics are not strategy and confusing the two at the political/bureaucratic level has produced disastrous results throughout history. “Worst of the Worst” has its place in an immigration system already well under control where a tweak here or an arrest there will keep said system running efficiently. We are nowhere near status quo now, and treating the current catastrophe facing our country is indicative of their status quo, unqualified bona fides in implementing an overarching immigration strategy. Homan hasn’t arrested anyone in 20 years, Scott was a policy wonk to begin with, and Mullin is a good plumber. Professionals tested in the realities of strategy formulation based on years of professional training, expertise, and on the ground experience are priceless. Professionals pining for status quo are a liability.
I do not believe Trump has abandoned his campaign promise. I think his “advisors” aren’t providing him the ground truth. Those mentioned above, in addition to others (all non-border security professionals), know little of immigration enforcement. Most don’t know the difference between ICE and Border Patrol (long-term plain clothes investigators vs uniformed, highly trained Border Patrol Agents) much less what goes into total spectrum immigration enforcement. If I had it to do over again, I’d have briefed Trump myself on occasion rather than rely on that inner circle who may have had interests in other places. Trump is the best President I’ve ever worked for, and I believe he will come back to that campaign promise soon.
7. Is Trump hemmed in by his inner circle, or is he managing the electoral pressures of the upcoming midterms?
Midterms undoubtedly influence that inner circle. They worry about polling rather than Americans being killed by illegal aliens. I could give two damns about polling or politics as my position is apolitical. This probably adds to friction between the two camps (total spectrum immigration enforcement and the inner circle). Strategists must take the total context into consideration, and I do that, however that does not preclude conflict. I expected conflict since this was uncharted territory. I did not expect to fight a two-front war, though. Fighting criminals and then those in government who one would think had your back, represents a difficult spot; a two front war. Back to those few occasions where a leader emerges as the total focal point of an operation or situation. They all dealt with this type of conflict. Patton got crossways with Ike and Omar and Hoover ended the careers of those who he was afraid would usurp his status (Melvin Purvis for example).
8. What does this period reveal about the relationship between operational toughness, public image, and electoral support?
They are all interrelated, always have been and always will be. Unmitigated immigration in the United States is now the single greatest threat to our culture and very existence (same for you folks in Europe). Sometimes, all stops must be pulled and this is one of those times. Public image and electoral support remain high, and we were just getting started with operations! In another few months the scale and depth of immigration operations was to be many times what you saw. Patton understood what was at stake with his march across Germany. He was supposed to let Monty reach Berlin first, but he understood what was at stake and accomplished what he needed to. Operational toughness, public image, and electoral support aren’t mutually exclusive. I felt as interior enforcement unfolded, increasing support in all three of those areas would CONTINUE to take place. We were on the march for total victory, ladies and gentlemen.
This period reveals that a small minority of the electorate joined with status quo bureaucrats to stop operations due to their own paranoia or ineptitude. America supports total spectrum immigration enforcement; the cacophony of pissed off Americans grows daily.
9. At CPAC, you told Der Spiegel you would be “happy to help Germany.” What can Europeans realistically draw from the American experience?
Europe is in dire straits. Unmitigated immigration into Europe is coming to its malevolent fruition now. Europeans look at this now unfolding chapter in American immigration enforcement as a point of reference for their own problems. At CPAC, I talked to countless Europeans interested in lessons learned, and more importantly, viable strategies in dealing with the immigration problem in Europe. What happened over the past year is excellent for Europe. One, it shows how widespread the immigration problem is and two, details feasible, sustainable and acceptable strategy for Europe. Most importantly, it got citizens across Europe interested and infused with hope. They know it can be done — we just provided you a roadmap. As for me helping Germany or anyone else — have passport, will travel!!!!! Let’s help our brothers and sisters in Europe — we feel for you and understand what your innocent citizens are truly up against. Time to mass deport out of Europe. I’d love to visit portions of Europe I’ve never been to and raise some stiff shots of single Malt Scottish brew or a pint of dark Guinness in Manchester without having the worry of cultural change and crime!!!!! Americans care about European well-being. Let’s go Europe!!!!
10. Jared Taylor told Voxeuropa that remigration would take a different form in Europe than in America. Do you agree? What is the actual objective of a large-scale expulsion policy?
Something else entirely. Cultural change and assimilation. Illegal aliens and many immigrants over the past couple decades who have entered the United States and Europe have no intention of assimilating into our culture. This represents perhaps the greatest threat to the United States since the founding of our country. With millions of foreigners on US soil refusing our culture, heritage, traditions, exceptionalism, values, etc, our formula of success is in its twilight. I see the exact same thing occurring in Europe. You (we) are under siege. We’ve reached the tipping point. Right now, our greatest struggle isn’t with the illegal aliens or non-assimilative immigrants; it’s with the weak-kneed bureaucrats and politicians who are intent on pausing action or waiting until the next election cycle. That part is the same in both countries.
Jared Taylor is smart in saying remigration might look different in Europe. It might. If and when we get past those pesky bureaucrats and politicians (the grassroots will take care of that for us), specific tactics to remove those who need removing may take different forms in Europe and the US. But, it will need to be done in both places if cultures are to survive.
11. In Europe, remigration is driven by movements like the AfD, Renaud Camus, and Martin Sellner’s Identitarians. Do you follow this dynamic, and do you see echoes of your own struggle in it?
The struggle in Europe and United States is very close. Same thing happening by illegal aliens and immigrants who don’t hold your values. AfD in Germany has got it right in my opinion. They eschew political correctness in favor of German culture and identity. I am proud of AfD as well as Restore Britain and others. Never give up on your citizens and your culture in favor of those who could care less who Lawrence of Arabia was or if Alexander Dumas wrote “The Count of Monte Cristo”. They don’t care if your grandad fought in the Great War and died at Belleau Wood or if Henry the IVth was a great king. That should scare the hell out of every European in Europe. It’s strange, but I fear for Europe. Talking with the fine folks from your neck of the woods at CPAC drove that home. We are up against the same creeping horror globally. Why not work together to solve the problem?
Conservatives in the United States see us as a global fraternity when it comes to the immigration problem. Liberals are not in that fraternity and are hard against you. A common enemy or problem unites like no other. Your daughters are being raped and your sons killed in Europe by aliens just like here in the United States. Same problem over different geographic regions. Why not unite and solve this problem once and for all worldwide? It’s been a long time since I felt united with Europe (Brexit was pretty cool), but lately it’s been few and far between (if only you had freedom to carry firearms). This most recent immigration problem has me fully committed with you. Brother in arms if you will. Good luck, Europe, millions of us are in your corner. We want our old Europe back!!!!
Lessons from my experience: go all in. A strategy to address immigration must have those field leaders communicating with the nation’s leadership. Too many middlemen will inevitably taint operations and put too many interests in something that should be focused, concise and straightforward. When too many non-immigration professionals (Susan Wiles, Thom Tillis), or those with limited immigration experience (Scott and Homan), the information coming from those individuals will inevitably inhibit operations in favor of personal prerogatives.
Also, the media. If you look at Chicago and Los Angeles especially — our media apparatus in DHS was second to none. DHS Undersecretary Trish McGloughlin was so far ahead of the game. Our narratives were able to counter even the most insidious narratives the media could throw at us. We kept them on defense. Europe, you will need to meet that crazy media machine you have head on with prudent and thoughtful action. Set the narrative, and don’t let them set it. Secretary Noem was excellent at this as well. She got out ahead of media events and would talk with her field leaders BEFORE major operations. She kept agenda driven media on defense. You have our expertise to draw from, so do so.
Voxeuropa Herald is an initiative that shares the voices shaping Europe today: elected officials, essayists, philosophers, activists, artists and influencers. These portraits are collective responses to the crises shaking our Europe. Faced with the major upheavals of our times, Voxeuropa Herald gives a voice to those who, throughout Europe, share solutions and visions for the future. The message is clear : European realities call for European responses.
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